Who Are the Bible’s 144,000

Who Are the 144,000 of Revelation?People001 group 144

                                             – by Mary A. LaClair

Widow friend

Widow friend

It was bad weather on a Sunday afternoon and I called a widow friend to pass a little indoor time pleasantly. Although this lady claims to be a no-nap person, she was so grumpy I figured my call must have caught her in a cat nap she didn’t want to admit.

The next day she left an apology for her grumpiness on my woman sadanswering machine. When I got back to her, she explained her bad attitude that day had been with God, not with me. Whew, God is better able to handle bad attitudes than I when we give them to Him, He handles enough of mine; He can handle hers!  And He did! I know this lady has kept her faith through some tough times, some of which she talks about and some of which she doesn’t. She explained that she had been reading Revelation and had developed an attitude with God because it appears that she would not be included in the 144,000 mentioned there. And it certainly seems a final tribulation has begun she said!

woman sad-happyI explained that as a lady myself, I too had a similar feeling when I read that the 144,000 were all males but that I asked God and He explained it to me.

I showed her, as God has shown me, where there are two groups mentioned; the 144,000 being one group, a Jewish countable group; while the other group, the multitude from every nation, was too large to count and had white robes washed in the Blood of Christ. THIS is the group, I told her, in which she and I (and I hope you, too, dear reader) are numbered. It is the great multitude group which speaks of salvation and of the Lamb. Salvation comes through Jesus, the Lamb of God. “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the Blood of the Lamb.” THIS is the group which comes out of a great tribulation which seems to begin when the Power of the Blood becomes available. Because the Blood of Christ is a qualifier for the group too large to number but not for the 144,000 – the 144,000 number was necessarily filled before the Blood of Christ, BEFORE Calvary. To confirm, Rev 7:9 says AFTER the 144,000 came those who washed their robes in the Blood of Christ.Book_of_Revelation029

Redeemed before a great tribulation began, these 144,000 are explicitly sinless Jewish males; and since Jesus Christ is and always will be, the only perfect sinless man, these males then could not have reached manhood when they were redeemed from among men (from the earth). There were no childhood lies (yes, they count), they have a language all their own; and, they follow the Lamb wherever He goes. Does that should like innocent little ones to you?

Because Revelation says these 144,000 were first fruits unto God and first fruits unto the Lamb, I figure there were two segments making up this group. Since God and the Lamb are the same, there is a significance to the use of the two words: one group from the Old Testament (were God is introduced) and one group from the New Testament (where the Lamb is introduced in the Flesh) thus we have the significance of “unto God and unto the Lamb”.

First fruits unto God would be, relative to history, just before Moses was given The Ten Commandments, the first fruits unto God being slain when Moses was a baby; baby moses the first fruits unto the Lamb would be, relative to history, just before Jesus completed His mission, when Jesus was a baby. These are the first fruits unto the Lamb.baby Jesus Nativity_Scenes011

A lot of Bible reading grand-mothers have known for years that these 144,000 are the Holy Innocents. God would not let Pharaoh and Herod slaughter innocent Jewish male babes only to forget them. He forgets not His own. They are especially honored in Heaven just as they are honored and menrioned specially in Revelation.

Some say there is a final tribulation contained within the great tribulation and is expected to last seven years. I believe we each have our own personal tribulation from which we should all eventually seek relief given by the Risen Christ, and ask Him to be with us in this life through His Holy Spirit.

Yes!

Yes!

I hope my friend will begin to ask God about things which she does not understand instead of assuming and getting grumpy. In Isaiah 1:18 God instructs us: “Come now, let us reason together, says the Lord.”Without quoting it here, Revelation 7:1-17, the whole chapter, introduces the number and the source of these Jewish males.

Revelation chapter 14 identifies them in more detail:

 14 “Then I looked, and lo, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven like the sound of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder; the voice I heard was like the sound of harpers playing on their harps, 3 and they sing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and before the elders. No one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who had been redeemed from the earth. 4 It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are chaste;[a] it is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes; these have been redeemed from mankind as first fruits for God and the Lamb, 5 and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are spotless.”  Angels018

6 “Then I saw another angel flying in midheaven, with an eternal gospel to proclaim to those who dwell on earth, to every nation and tribe and tongue and people;…” Revelation 14:1-6 (RSV) (emphasis mine)

The 144,000 are already dwelling in Heaven with the Lamb before the gospel is proclaimed to those who dwell on earth. The 144,000 are already there.

Conclusion: The timetable in Revelation may be further ahead than a lot of people think. Don’t think that there is plenty of time to repent while waiting for 144,000 perfect Jewish men to come upon the world scene.  They have already come and gone.

Friend, have you come to Calvary to wash your robes in the Blood and Water which flowed from the Savior’s side? Will you be included in the group from every nation, too great to number, which are saved from within the great tribulation? Do not delay to come to the Savior today. Investigate Jesus, the Christ.

Please wait for animated messages to load before going on…you will like the three of them below

Jesus died for whoever animatedYes!                                                                                                                                                       Jesus love never dies animated   gospel animated rotating verses

Angels018                         –  end –

WHAT DID JESUS WRITE IN THE SAND?

WHAT DID JESUS WRITE IN THE SAND?

–by Mary A. LaClair

1,300 words  jesus-john8-full-231x300

2 Early in the morning he came again to the temple; all the people came to him, and he sat down and taught them. 3 The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery, and placing her in the midst 4 they said to him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in the act of adultery. 5 Now in the law Moses commanded us to stone such. What do you say about her?” 6 This they said to test him, that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. 7 And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 And once more he bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. 9 But when they heard it, they went away, one by one, beginning with the eldest, and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. 10 Jesus looked up and said to her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?” 11 She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you; go, and do not sin again.”  John 8:2- 12 RSV

Actually, all the versions I checked do not say “sand”; they say “ground”. Buildings, such as the Temple where this took place, are seldom built on sand.

What did Jesus write on the ground?  Some think it was the names of the men present man who had sinned with her. Others think there is no way of knowing what was written. I have heard many agree with the former; however concerning the latter I believe there IS a way to surmise from Scripture what Jesus wrote on the ground. Notice that He did write twice.

More than 24 times in Scripture it is recorded that Jesus spoke “It is written” and/or to the effect ‘you should know the Scriptures’. Documentation in the link at the end of this piece lists many of Jesus’ references to the Holy Scriptures.

Once it is established in our minds that Jesus responded to questions, and often spoke, using Scriptures it is easy then to reflect that Jesus most probably answered here with a Scripture also. The Scribes and Pharisees were proud of being teachers of the Law and they were here to test Jesus on the Law but instead Jesus tests them on the Law.

Like Adam, the stronger sex, these male accusers tried to pass the entire blame on to the weaker sex, woman. But Jesus acquits the woman while He calmly and effectively silences her haughty, prideful accusers. These men were quilty of what today is called ‘slut slaming’; Jesus condemned the male for his part but acquited the woman.

I believe Jesus followed His pattern of quoting Scriptures and that He either cited or scroll with rodswrote out Hosea 4:13-14, in the ground; that Scripture which says God holds the male more accountable than the female for sex sins.

Jesus, Himself being the Law Giver, tells us in Matthew 5:18 and Luke 16:17 that: “not one jot or tittle of the law shall pass away.” (jot or tittle = dotting the (i) and crossing the (t)). But these men tried to get Jesus to focus on only part of the Law – the part which they chose, thus they tried to ‘control the moment’ or “to trick Him.”

YOU CAN'T HIDE FROM GOD ChristArt.com

YOU CAN’T HIDE FROM GOD ChristArt.com

It is recorded that Jesus wrote in the ground a second time and it is this time “they went away, one by one, beginning with the eldest.” (verse 9) I believe  this second time He wrote the names, one by one, beginning with the eldest, of the equally guilty male parties, since they left “one by one.” Thus He was showing the men their guilt. Don’t misunderstand; he was not acquiting the men by this action. He would be letting them know they too were guilty.

The Pharisees wanted Jesus to think they knew the Law so well that I believe Jesus answered them from the Law, just as He regularly did when teaching or being challenged on earth. It would be like Him to refer them to what they should have known but which they chose to ignore. Do we ignore this same law ourselves, today?  The part which says:

14 “I will not punish your daughters when they play the harlot,

nor your brides when they commit adultery;

for the men themselves go aside with harlots,

and sacrifice with cult prostitutes,

and a people without understanding shall come to ruin.”   Hosea 4:14RSV

bible with hands

These men were without understanding; He tells them they will come to ruin. I believe  He was letting the men know he had not yet acquitted them of the same sin or of their sin in thinking they needed no forgiveness themselves.

The MESSAGE Bible, a most modern version for today, states it quite clearly:

“Wine and whiskey

leave my people in a stupor.

They ask question of a dead tree,

Expect answers from a sturdy walking stick.

Drunk on sex, they can’t find their way home.

They’ve replaced their God with their genitals.

They worship on the tops of mountains,

Make a picnic out of religion.

Under the oaks and elms on the hills

They stretch out and take it easy.

Before you know it, your daughters are whores

And the wives of your sons are sleeping around.

But I’m not going after your whoring daughters

Or the adulterous wives of your sons.

It’s the men who pick up the whores that I’m after,

The men who worship at the holy whorehouses—

A stupid people, ruined by whores!” 

(Hosea 4:11-14  The Message)  (emphasis mine)

It is quite clear here that God blames men if women become whores or adulteresses and get involved in sexual sins, and I think that’s what ended the confrontation. He let it be known that he was not acquitting proud men of their same sin. And God does not wink at sexual sin today. Men are to be the protectors of women.

He probably did write the names of the men guilty of the same sin, but I believe He Jesus writes with finger John 8wrote the Law first so they had no bargaining chips left for themselves. He sent the message: If you, as teachers of the law, think you’re following the Law…think again…you are just as guilty and even more so.

He also let them know He sees the unseen, that which is not seen by men or which we wouldn’t want to admit.

YOU CAN'T HIDE FROM GOD ChristArt.com

YOU CAN’T HIDE FROM GOD ChristArt.com

A further intimidation of those particular men present would be this: These men would also have left because they, having become false witnesses by accusing only half of the guilty parties, wanted to exonerate themselves from the same guilt but wanted to  condem someone whom God would not because of Hosea 4:14. They also knew the law which deals with false witnesses (did they think Jesus didn’t?), and that they themselves could receive the penalty they wished to inflict on someone else.  (See: Deuteronomy 19:16-21 regarding false witnesses at the end of the following article, JESUS AUTHENTICATES THE PROPHETS AND SCRIPTURE.

I think Jesus cited or wrote out Hosea 4:14 on the ground the first time, afterwards writing the names of the men present to whom the Law applied. He is also letting them know that He knows secret sins.

A lesson for today?  God can’t be out-smarted or tricked.

P.S.  Before completing this article I ‘just happened’ to tune in to Joseph Prince’s T.V. program. https://www.josephprince.org/onlinestore/us/c-93-sermon-cds.aspx?IsTop=1 My ears picked up when he spoke of the incident of the woman caught in adultery. It is just what I was writing on at the time. This is where I was alerted to the fact that Jesus wrote “on the ground” not in the sand as popularly thought. Joseph Prince’s further insights are amazing! Because the temple, he says, was built on large cobblestone squares, not sand, Jesus could well have written on stone with his ten-commandments-stone-tablets-42898375 shutterstockfinger – just as He wrote the Ten Commandments – on stone with His finger – and seeing this the Pharisees would have known that they had come in contact with the Law Maker Himself. Isn’t that just like Jesus.. giving a lesson deeper than the ear can hear?  It makes me tingle.

The Scriptures where Jesus said:  “It is written” and “You should know the Scriptures”  are posted in the following post titled:

https://theproverbs120column.wordpress.com/2013/03/15/jesus-validates-prophets-and-scriptures-of-the-old-testament/

JESUS VALIDATES PROPHETS AND SCRIPTURES OF THE OLD TESTAMENT

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Jesus Validates Prophets and Scriptures of the Old Testament

 

JESUS VALIDATES PROPHETS AND SCRIPTURES IN THE OLD TESTAMENT

– by Mary A. LaClair

1,230 words

The belief that the Bible is God’s written Word, free from error is seen by the claims of Christ Himself.Book

Jesus quotes Scriptures and validates them by saying “It is written…”

 

 Matthew 4:4

4 But he answered, “It is written,

‘Man shall not live by bread alone,

but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.'” RSV

 

Matthew 4:6  (here even the devil quotes Scripture)

6 and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down; for it is written,

‘He will give his angels charge of you,’ and

‘On their hands they will bear you up,

lest you strike your foot against a stone.'” RSV

Matthew 4:7

7 Jesus said to him, “Again it is written, ‘You shall not tempt the Lord your God.'” RSV

Matthew 4:10

10 Then Jesus said to him, “Begone, Satan! for it is written,seek bible

‘You shall worship the Lord your God

and him only shall you serve.'” RSV

 

Matthew 21:13

13 He said to them, “It is written, ‘My house shall be called a house of prayer’; but you make it a den of robbers.” RSV  clear-temple

Matthew 26:24

24 The Son of man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.” RSV

Matthew 26:31

31 Then Jesus said to them, “You will all fall away because of me this night; for it is written, ‘I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.’ RSV

Mark 1:2

2 As it is written in Isaiah the prophet,

“Behold, I send my messenger before thy face,

who shall prepare thy way; RSV

Mark 7:6

6 And he said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written,

‘This people honors me with their lips, scroll

but their heart is far from me; RSV

Mark 9:13

13 But I tell you that Eli’jah has come, and they did to him whatever they pleased, as it is written of him.” RSV

Luke 4:4

4 And Jesus answered him, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone.'” RSV

Luke 4:8

8 And Jesus answered him, “It is written,

‘You shall worship the Lord your God,

and him only shall you serve.'” RSV

Luke 19:46

46 saying to them, “It is written, ‘My house shall be a house of prayer’; but you have made it a den of robbers.” RSV

Luke 24:46

46 and said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, RSV

ticket to heavenJohn 6:45

45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Every one who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me. RSV

John 8:17

17 In your law it is written that the testimony of two men is true; RSV

John 12:14

14 And Jesus found a young ass and sat upon it; as it is written, RSV

 

Jesus stressed the importance of  our knowing the Scriptures:

Matt 12:38-40

39 But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign shall be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet; 40 for just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so shall the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth….”     NAS

Matt 19:3-7

3 And some Pharisees came to Him, testing Him, and saying, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any cause at all?” 4 And He answered and said, “Have you not read, that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female,…”  NAS

Matthew 21:42

42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the scriptures:

‘The very stone which the builders rejectedseek bible

has become the head of the corner;

this was the Lord’s doing,

and it is marvelous in our eyes’? RSV

Matthew 22:29

29 But Jesus answered them, “You are wrong, because you know neither the scriptures nor the power of God. RSV

Matthew 26:54

54 But how then should the scriptures be fulfilled, that it must be so?” RSV

Matthew 26:56

56 But all this has taken place, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled.” Then all the disciples forsook him and fled. RSV

Mark 14:49

49 Day after day I was with you in the temple teaching, and you did not seize me. But let the scriptures be fulfilled.” RSV

Luke 24:27

27 And beginning with Moses and all the prophets, he interpreted to them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. RSV

Luke 24:32

32 They said to each other, “Did not our hearts burn within us while he talked to us on garden old man and womanthe road, while he opened to us the scriptures?” RSV

Luke 24:45

45 Then he opened their minds to understand the scriptures, RSV

John 5:39

seek bible39 You search the scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness to me; RSV

John 10:31-39 

31 The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, “I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?”  33 The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.” 34 Jesus answered them, “Has it not been written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? 35 “If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be scrollbroken), 36 do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world,’ You are blaspheming,’ because I said,’ I am the Son of God’? 37 “If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; 38 but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father. ”  39 Therefore they were seeking again to seize Him, and He eluded their grasp.  NAS

Acts 17:2

2 And Paul went in, as was his custom, and for three weeks he argued with them from the scriptures, RSV

Punishment for false witnesses referred to in article    WHAT DID JESUS WRITE IN THE SAND?

Deut 19:16-21  – 

16 If a malicious witness rises against any man to accuse him of wrongdoing, 17 then both parties to the dispute shall appear before the LORD, before the priests and the judges who are in office in those days; 18 the judges shall inquire diligently, and if the witness is a false witness and has accused his brother falsely, 19 then you shall do to him as he had meant to do to his brother; so you shall purge the evil from the midst of you. 20 And the rest shall hear, and fear, and shall never again commit any such evil among you. 21 Your eye shall not pity; it shall be life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.  (RSV)

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A MAN NEEDS TO KNOW A WOMAN’S PLACE IN GOD

A MAN SHOULD KNOW A WOMAN’S PLACE IN GOD

— by Mary A. LaClair

Concerning a column titled “A Woman Should Know Her Place'(in God), (under the Helium Website category: Should Wives Still Submit To Their Husbands)http://www.helium.com/items/1094700-womans-place—in-society-in-church I have had some input. Some did not understand what lesson they were to get from the reference to Bible passages in chapter 13 of the Book of Judges.

This is the chapter which deals with Samson’s mother and foretells the birth of Samson. God brought the message to the woman. Manoah’s wife was out tending the garden gardeningwhen the Angel of God appeared to her. She took the message from God to her husband. The husband, not wanting to believe a woman, even his wife, prayed that the Angel would come again, this time to both of them. God came again, but came to only the woman again, when the man was not there.

If there is there a message here it is ‘why do you doubt your wife?’

Feeling the husband would need to see for himself, the wife fetched him while the Lord graciously waited. When the man asked further instructions of the Angel, the Angel replied, (my paraphrase) just do what I told your wife!’ However several versions say “Be sure she follows all the instructions I gave to her”.

Wow! Did that man feel put out! Now, it was he who was under orders to follow his judge gavel and biblewife’s instructions!

If a preacher today preached this message he’d probably be thrown out of a lot of churches; yet, this message of mutual submission is from God, and God never changes. Mutual submission and mutual respect are all over the New Testament; this message even being in the book of Judges in the Old Testament. Lest some think women were messengers concerning only the birth of a child, remember the risen Jesus appeared first to Mary Magdelene with the instructions, “Go tell the brothers that I have risen!”

One person thought the earlier column should be named Man Should Know Woman’s Place With God. I agree!

There is a lesson to be learned there. No more of this business that a wife is wrong because of Eve. Lessons on Adam and Eve would cover five pages but before I get offpalmtree animated on a rabbit trail, Adam could be faulted for not telling Eve of God’s message properly, for in Gen 2:15-21 it is only Adam who is given the command not to eat of the tree, and Eve wasn’t created until after this. Is it any wonder God decided to trust women with more messages? Many women prophets and even a woman Judge are exemplified in the Old Testament. Let today’s women not follow Adam’s inadequate message delivering concerning God’s commands!

Returning to the story of Samson’s mother – If Manoah had been working alongside his wife he probably would have been there. Yes, I’d say the Lord likes togetherness and garden old man and womanGodly agreement between mates. He certainly instructed it in this account ; yet, did not honor mutual submission in the deceptive agreement between mates in the account of Annanias and Sapphria; such was met with death, death on an individual basis (Acts 5).

Further interesting reading regarding this topic may be found at: http://looklistenthink.wordpress.com/2011/01/30/boss-or-leader/  and

http://looklistenthink.wordpress.com/2011/11/25/consenting-adults/

If a man dares hold submission over a woman’s head, then it is both the man and the woman who should know woman’s place with God, and with the position of women in Christian culture. Further, it is my personal opinion that God will use women mightily in these last days! Selah!

women seen and heard

For further reading relating to this topic you may wish to see:

https://theproverbs120column.wordpress.com/2013/03/16/what-did-jesus-write-in-the-sand/

SHOULD WOMEN SPEAK IN CHURCH

WOMEN SPEAKING IN CHURCH    by  Mary A. LaClair      women mouth taped

The Corinthian church was seriously lacking in order and chapters 11-14 of First Corinhians deal with conducting an orderly meeting. In chapter 14 it tells women not to interrupt the service. The passage below addresses two issues for conduct of public worship: (1) women who speak and prophesy with authority and(2) women who interrupt to ask questions. See if you can pick out where each is addressed in this Scripture:

“1 Corinthians 11
New Living Translation (NLT)
‘11 1 And you should imitate me, just as I imitate Christ.
Instructions for Public Worship
“2 I am so glad that you always keep me in your thoughts, and that you are following the teachings I passed on to you. 3 But there is one thing I want you to know: The head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.[a] 4 A man dishonors his head[b] if he covers his head while praying or prophesying. 5 But a woman dishonors her head[c] if she prays or prophesies” —(in public worship)— “without a covering on her head, for this is the same as shaving her head. 6 Yes, if she refuses to wear a head covering, she should cut off all her hair! But since it is shameful for a woman to have her hair cut or her head shaved, she should wear a covering.[d’]”

There seems to be no doubt that this portion is dealing with public worship gatherings and some Bibles even include the heading to this part of the chapter as INSTRUCTIONS FOR PUBLIC WORSHIP ie. NIV; CEV, NLT (as above)
It’s possible to get caught up in the word picture of hats and head coverings that the picture of women speaking and prophesying in church is missed by many. What this is saying is that it’s taken for granted for women to naturally pray and prophesy in public worship, and thus instructions on properly doing so.

???????????????????????????????????????ladies old fashion hats

Conversing with a Pastor, I offered to speak in his church on the principle of tithing. I was told I could speak only to the ladies Bible study; but I would not be invited to speak to the church as a whole. That particular church interpreted 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 “Let women remain silent and ask their husbands when they get home ” (my paraphrase) as actually saying women were not to speak in church at all which Scripture will prove a mis-interpretation.
Scripture says it this way:

34 women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. 1 Cor 14:34 35(from New International Version)

The New King James puts it this way:

34 Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says.35 And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church. 1 Cor 14:34 35NKJV emphasis mine

When this Scripture was written, women sat on one side of the church and men on the other side. Asking a question of their husbands meant calling out across the room. One will note that chapter 14 of 1 Corinthians is addressed to an unruly church where everyone was speaking at once.

No matter which version is used; verse 35 explains verse 34. It means, “don’t interrupt a service or a teaching to ask a question”. It specifically addresses women asking questions during a service. Speaking and interrupting are two different things. women at podiumwomen w blaring megaphone at manEvery once in awhile I get serious about dogging God until He explains a particular Scripture to me. I feel I have some insight as to how and why that Scripture came about, and I got my answer from secular television. Yes, it’s true! And it’s not the first time God directed me to TV for an answer. One time He told me I’d find my answer on that night’s weather forecast! And I did! That’s another article.

Additionally a lot of our TV sit-coms feature loud over-bearing women with a Brooklyn accent.

The fictional characters of the Seinfeld and the Costanza mothers on the famous sit-com , are not portrayals of a general quiet female character.

I can just hear a Fran Dresher-type woman at an Old Testament prayer meeting call out to her husband, speaking without permission “Hey, Sam, what does that mean….. ?”, followed by laughter. While I’m not picking on anyone here, TV does admit this type of woman exists, else where would be the relational comedy ?

In addition, some Mediterranean people groups are known for their large outgoing Mamas’ who don’t mind either being loud; or, feigning ignorance for the sake of the male. Hmmmm….so…

…it definitely could be that this Scripture was written for a certain type of woman, in a certain situation, and not for all women in general. I think it was NOT written for the soft spoken contemplative wife of 1st Peter 3:4 5…

4 “Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God’s sight. 5 For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to make themselves beautiful.” NIV

There is a difference between speaking and interrupting. To be in submission here means not to interrupt. To make that one Scripture an example for all women is comparable to relating female comedienne’s to all women. Not so!

I wish to thank the TV producers, and the actresses who accept these roles, for having given me what I feel is insight into this Scripture!

And I thank God for women preachers like Joyce Meyer, Marilyn Hickey, Beth Moore, etc. etc. and am grateful that Diana Hagee is given the pulpit on occasion, also. women at podium                            Yes!

Proverbs 1:20 still holds true!

Prov 1:20

20 Wisdom calls aloud in the street,

she raises her voice in the public squares; (NIV)

The Spirit of Wisdom, in Scripture, is always in the female gender – – that’s woman!

Prov 1:20 21 from the Revised Standard:

20 Wisdom cries aloud in the street;

in the markets she raises her voice;

21 on the top of the walls she cries out;

at the entrance of the city gates she speaks: RSV

Proverbs 8:1-4 “Does not wisdom call out? Does not understanding raise her voice? 2 On the heights along the way, where the paths meet, she takes her stand; 3 beside the gates leading into the city, at the entrances, she cries aloud: 4 “To you, O men, I call out; I raise my voice to all mankind.” (from New International Version)

There is a difference between speaking and interrupting. To be in submission here means not to interrupt. To make that one Scripture an example for all women is comparable to relating female comedienne’s to all women. Not so!

1 Corinthians 11:4-5 says that when women pray and prophesy in church that she should have her head covered:

“Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved.”  (NIV)

This certainly admits that men do not have exclusionary rights when it comes to speaking in church, or even prophesying in church — for Holy Scripture says that when women do prophesy in church, they should wear a ‘hat’ or a scarf. And that is women speaking in church!

They should speak with their wisdom as God intends.

Further reading relating to this topic is found at:
https://theproverbs120column.wordpress.com/category/women-and-church/men-need-to-know-womens-place-with-god/ AND AT
http://www.helium.com/items/1094700-womans-place—in-society-in-church

Thanks for reading and contemplating the whole of God’s word on this subject.